Book IV

Polemarchus and Adeimantus want Socrates to explain his earlier claim of wives and children being held in common. They want to know why this idea should be ideal and whether it could actually be realized in practice, which interestingly becomes a more broad or general issue for the whole project about making a just city. I think the whole reason behind Socrates wanting to keep wives and children in common is to prevent any attachments that would alter the devotion and the concern of the guardians. (462 a-b) " Is there any greater evil we can mention for a city than that which tears it apart and makes it many instead of one? Or any greater good than that which binds it together and makes it one?" It seems as we discussed in class that Socrates would want the city to be united in pain that for just some of the people in the city to be happy. With the whole idea of the people not knowing which individual is their biological kid it makes the guardians effectively become a big family and the guardians will be encouraged to do what is proper and right. Socrates then goes on to talk about how the city should breed, just like we talked about in class people who breed dogs only want the best dogs and will breed the right dogs together. This is essentially what Socrates is wanting to do in the city, to have the best to mate with the best in order to produce the best. I think a good question comes from when Socrates talks about the women training naked with the men, which could cause problems. Socrates responds by saying that this is the rational way to do things and that people will see this as the norm. (457 a) " These women will wear virtue or excellence instead of clothes." How is it that we can educate everyone into seeing this as the norm, basically reprogramming the way they think on a deeper level? I have issues with this I think. I am not sure how you can just change people's minds so fast and quickly with no repercussion.